Planters’ Update: Cameron & Alex
An Interview with Rev. Cameron Jones
Pioneer Evangelist, Dublin Bible Talks (Silicon Docks Project)
Interviewed by David Martin
Cameron, obviously Covid has interrupted everything, but how has it impacted your initial plans specifically?
Pioneering work is imaginary in its origin. What we are doing is different to other similar-appearing ministries to workers in cities. St Helen’s Bishopsgate in London began their work with a group of business people asking Dick Lucas to do something for them. Others have had ‘seed’ groups to begin with – we begin with my only wife, Alex, and me. We have to build from scratch. So we imagined any number of ways that it might start, things we could experiment with. As a result, all Covid did was change what we were imagining. No actual work got impacted.
Can you honestly say that you can see God’s hand at work in your situation because of this?
Absolutely! I was a bit flippant in my previous answer. The work of imagining and planning is real and important work, but the mind can conceive of any number of possibilities, and that can be paralysing. Covid meant a restraint on what we could begin with–those restraints were (and are) frustrating at times, but they also give a focus. In our case, it’s created a model we would never have considered – meeting online. This has meant that people didn’t have to be five minutes’ walk away from a specific location in Dublin in order to attend a mid-week bible talk.
Even more, there were other God-given introductions that gave direction to our initial meetings, which was a Bible overview, designed to give confidence in reading the Bible for oneself. I don’t think we’d have started there except for this situation.
What gives you the determination to continue?
Well, it could be that we’re here, committed, having sold our house, closed doors, turned our back on other options, and our options are limited. That’s true. Starting this has been costly, and I’m not sure what else we would do. But it’s not that!
It’s because we are convinced workers in Dublin are lost in sin and facing God’s judgment, and the people who have most access to them to tell them about Jesus are their Christian colleagues. These Christian colleagues are the most important people in their lives–they carry in their mouths the message of salvation.
Dublin Bible Talks give Christian workers a way of standing out as Christians (just by coming along), something to invite colleagues to come to, a way of growing in their faith during the working week, and a way to encourage their gospel ministry in ways appropriate to the workplace.
We’re thinking about being prepared to stand alone in ministry and as a Christian. It might be good to break that down as we think about your own ministry. Firstly in comparison with other cities we may be familiar with, where does Dublin sit in terms of work place ministries?
By any measure, let alone comparison with other cities, our work is small, isolated, and unimpressive. I’m most familiar with London and Sydney where there are very well established mid-week bible talks – going for over 30 years – with new locations dotted around each city. In Dublin, we are not aware of anyone else doing mid-week Bible talks or one-to-one Bible reading for workers.
What we are doing is not supported by the denomination that ordained me (Church of Ireland), in fact, after enquiring about a vacant chaplaincy position, the position was eliminated. It looked like removing the role was preferable to me in it! This was amplified by being denied a clergy license in the diocese of Dublin and Glendalough.
As a follow up to this, any thoughts why this might be the case? Is it simply that everyone needs to be far more careful what they say in the workplace regarding religion? What might it say about churches in the city?
Actually, workplace policies can provide a framework defending Christian ideas and expression. Diversity policies that require respect and ‘space’ are well suited to establishing a Christian group in the workplace, just as a LGBTI group, or Islamic prayer room. There are several cases of this being done with the support of Human Resources departments.
I’m also not quite convinced that people need to be more careful than any other time for two reasons. First, most never considered the workplace as a mission field to begin with. We have separated our life into different segments–work, home, ’me’-time, family time, church time... In doing this we’ve separated workplace from Jesus’ claim of us as His people, forgetting that ‘the life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God’ (Gal 2:20). The current environment is a convenient excuse for what we didn’t intend to do anyway.
Secondly, it’s always been difficult to speak of what we believe in the workplace, just as it’s always been difficult with neighbours. Eoghan next-door may not have an HR policy to go to, but there’s a lifetime of sharing a fence that could be comfortable or uncomfortable. So, workplace evangelism isno different than any evangelism. It is shaped by gentleness, respect, it is intentional and prepared. Christians respect relationships and obligations, and a worker has a God-given obligation to their employer. This will mean that sometimes we may postpone gospel conversations, like this: “I’ve got to get back to this project, but let’s have lunch tomorrow so we can chat properly about this.”
The gospel is challenging and offensive wherever we are because people don’t recognise good news when they hear it. But perhaps we forget to see our colleagues with gospel-glasses, seeing that they are enemies of God in their minds because of their evil behaviour, just like we were (Col 1:21).
Of course, the size of our work reflects another simple reality: The number of believers in workplaces is tiny, because the number of Christians in the community is tiny. Ireland has the smallest proportion of evangelical Christians in the English-speaking world. It is also the only English-speaking country where the primary Christian influence on the culture has not been Protestant. We are a small, isolated, unimpressive, unsupported group of people living in a world that thinks very differently to us.
But that emphasises something I heard Rico Tice say recently: As a Christian, you’re the most important person in your colleague’s life! Most people have never had a colleague who believes what the Bible teaches. You are probably the only person they know who holds in your mouth the words of eternal life!
What supports do you think are necessary as you pioneer a new ministry to equip Christians to evangelise their work place?
God is very good, and we are not alone! We have the encouragement of the ICM Trustees, of our ICM colleagues, people who receive and respond to our prayer emails...
There are, of course, other ministries in Dublin that encourage Christian workers. A person’s local church is their primary encouragement and place of Christian service. “Building Trusted Relationships” with these folk is a key task for our ministry in this phase. If Christians know that their minister endorses and encourages our workplace ministry and their coming to the Dublin Bible talks, it will make a huge difference! This has been impacted byCOVID, but we’re making progress here!
There is also a Faith in Work forum that meets quarterly with guest speakers and testimonies from various industries and topics. I’ve been invited to participate in this, which is great. Some larger companies have Christian groups, supported by workplace diversity policies, and two of our folk began coming along because they heard of us through their workplace Christian group.
You are obviously prepared to stand alone as a pioneer, but what about those you are seeking to equip and reach? What are you seeking to give those in the work place as you meet with them?
The first thing is confidence in God’s word. Knowing the authority and clarity of scripture so that they read the Bible and can speak with others with the confidence that comes from knowing God’s word. In God’s goodness, the first person to join us did so because she wanted to grow in confidence in her own Bible reading. This helped put into practice what we knew to be essential – that the basis of our work is not Cameron or Alex or ICM – it is the God who makes himself known in Scripture, and with whom we can be reconciled by Jesus Christ by his work on the cross.
By His word, God will convince His people of the work He has for them as his ambassadors where he has placed them in their workplaces, knowing what to say and how to say it. Each of our Bible Talks becomes a training ground, not only learning from the passage, but demonstrating how to read, and how to read with others too.
What are the specific challenges as far as you can see them at this moment, for any Christian who might have to stand alone in their work place?
Since school I was more a loner than I might have been because I was a Christian. There were things my friends didn’t invite me to. I believe sometimes they were trying to be kind; they didn’t invite me because they knew I wouldn’t enjoy what they were doing, I wasn’t interested in that film or that activity... but it still meant I was alone when they were together. That hurt and still hurts when I remember it.
It was the case in the workplace too. I wasn’t in the conversations that were gossipy... but together. At the big conferences I was the one who was not drunk or flirting... but was alone.
It is so easy to be overwhelmed by being alone, and lonely. It would be so easy to forget reality and live in fantasy. It is so easy to think that mycolleagues are just fine, they have nothing to fear, that their niceness is good enough, that there is no judgment or eternity to fear.
What I need is some time with family. My brothers and sisters in Christ. People who will pull me out of the fantasy, who will remind me of reality by speaking God’s word to me. I need God’s people, the church. I need it as often as I can get it. Sunday morning, Wednesday lunchtime...
What’s coming up and how might we pray specifically for you and Alex at this time?
As well as the points in the prayer calendar we’d love prayer for:
Godliness in life – for Alex and I to be faithful followers of Jesus wherever we find ourselves. That I will be a godly husband and Alex a godly wife – to have and to hold, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish as we both shall live.
To promote the gospel in the way we live while we wait. Alex has some serious long- term health issues that have been particularly challenging recently. Please ask for relief from pain, for wisdom, and support from medical services.
The work of Dublin Bible Talks – this work is primarily focussed toward believers to help them:
• Stand Out: a simple way of publicly identifying as a Christian
• Invite: the talks are public and free, a way of introducing colleagues to what the Bible teaches about Jesus
• Grow: the message of Jesus saves, and also forges us for our life and work as God’s people.
• Share: learning from scripture equips people to speak faithfully of Christ to colleagues.
Building trusted relationships with existing believers, so that they are encouraged to consider the Dublin Bible Talks as a good use of one lunchtime a week.
Serving other ministries – Cameron continues to preach every month for a rural group of parishes in Co. Cavan. He also assists with preaching at ICM’s Immanuel Church and often travels to encourage and support other churches both mid-week and on Sundays.